Dr. Rachel Swan 0:00
About two, three years before, I was at a bit of a crossroads. Like I said, it had been a tough couple of years, and in terms of my career, like, I love chiropractic, I love what I do. I just find it is such meaningful work. I really feel so blessed to have found it. But I was getting to a point where I was like, I don't know if I can keep doing this for much longer. I needed a level of mastery if I was going to continue, and I also needed to, I think it was I mentioned to you at the seminar that I couldn't figure out what was going on with people I, you know, doing the same things that I'd done for, you know, all the time, that had been successful, and then all of a sudden, just not, you know, really, really struggling to help people. And so that was probably the biggest thing for me was was having those tools to be able to help people through what we've all experienced in the last week.
Dr. Don Macdonald 0:46
Hello and welcome. I'm Dr Don McDonald, and it's my pleasure to bring you a podcast dedicated to the chiropractors who are not just about treating pain, but about making a profound impact on the nervous systems of their practice members here at the informed chiropractor. Our mission is to blend the timeless principles of chiropractic care with the revolutionary insights of the polyvagal theory. So whether you're looking to deepen your understanding, redefine your technique, simply inspired to learn how others are making a bigger impact, you're in the right place. Let's embark on this journey of enhancing our practices, our communities and the lives of the people we touch one nervous system at a time. Thank you for joining me on the informed chiropractor. Let's get started.
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the informed chiropractor. This is Dr Don McDonald, your host, and today I get to go flying over to Australia and have a nice chat with a wonderful chiropractor that we only just met in June of this of last year at our McDonald's safety corridor event we had in Sydney, Australia. And then since then, she joined our group, she did our 90 day mentoring program, and now she's embodied by Brandy, and so she's done a lot of stuff with us, and we've really been fascinated with her story. She's graduated from Macquarie University, been in practice for 24 years, and yeah, she has a fascinating story. She likes to apparently work, but we'll get into that in a second. Welcome to the podcast. Dr Rachel Swain,
Dr. Rachel Swan 2:16
Oh, thanks so much for having me.
Dr. Don Macdonald 2:18
This is awesome. So I always like to start off our interviews with a little bit of origin story about how you even found out this crazy profession in the first place.
Dr. Rachel Swan 2:27
I was lucky enough to have my mom and dad take me to a chiropractor when I was 12. And I just, I was always fascinated by the body, and so yeah, just, you know, one thing led to another, and I was so fortunate to have incredible mentors when I first started out, and I just, yeah, I feel really, really lucky to have found chiropractic. That's cool, because you, because you currently practiced, like, outside of Sydney, right? You're still in, yeah, well, it's not that far from Sydney. Is it, no, about an hour, hour and a half north of Sydney, yeah. And is that where you grew up?
Dr. Don Macdonald 2:57
Or, like, where did you actually grow up?
Dr. Rachel Swan 2:58
Yeah, I actually grew up not far from where I live now, so on the Central Coast, oh, cool. It's a beautiful part of the world, yes.
Dr. Don Macdonald 3:06
And as we always talk to Rachel, she always lives with, like, close to a beach. She likes that that that beach view, which we as we're sitting freezing cold in Edmonton, Alberta, which we wish we could have that so, and did you just basically picked chiropractic to go to school in Sydney because it was so close. It was just from the location,
Dr. Rachel Swan 3:06
yes, the other the only other course offered at that time was in Melbourne, so was a bit further further away.
Dr. Don Macdonald 3:06
And so when you went into chiropractic school, because I think, like, as we talk about in the profession, we always have that kind of pain based model all the way to that vitalistic, you know, maximized function model. Did you have an experience on that kind of vitalistic model before you went to school or or was that something that developed after you already graduated?
Dr. Rachel Swan 3:51
Like I said, I was lucky enough to have amazing mentors, so I actually got to have that before I went to university. And throughout uni, I was a bit of an anomaly, I think, in my class, but I remember going to see Reggie gold speak the week before I actually started at university.
Dr. Don Macdonald 4:09
Well, that's good. So tell me a little bit about the mentors before you started school. Like, was it actually the chiropractor you're going to
Dr. Rachel Swan 4:15
Yeah, so Dr Lisa Sheldon, amazing, amazing woman and chiropractor. And then through her, I met Dr James Carter. So I did a lot of work with him for the first few years in my practice as well. So I was really, really fortunate that's and so you actually, did you meet him before school, before you went to school? Yeah, he was working in Dr Lisa's practice, and so, time to time. And then I worked with him as an assistant. And then, yeah, so, and then did a lot of his courses and did some coaching for him when I, when I was living in Canada.
Dr. Don Macdonald 4:45
So, yeah, that's pretty funny. Because, like, it's pretty cool to be hooked up with someone like that. Because Dr James Carter, we actually just met him when we did the first Parker seminar that brandy spoke at in Melbourne. I think it was in 2009 and we had met him retired at that.Point, but it's funny is that the more Australian chiropractors we met, like he, he mentored so many Australian chiropractors, maybe tell a little bit of listeners about him, um,
Dr. Rachel Swan 5:08
We went to CMCC,
Dr. Don Macdonald 5:09
And he's Canadian, right?
Dr. Rachel Swan 5:10
Yeah, Canadian. So he's Canadia Went to school in Canada, oh, and then came back to Australia, and then he was doing some, like, professional development courses in Canada, and then when he moved back to Australia, he started those up as well. So you're right, a lot of the chiropractors you've probably worked with, and that I've known for you know, most of my career have done some form of his work, and he had such a big influence on chiropractic here in Australia.
Dr. Don Macdonald 5:36
That's awesome. That's, that's, that's pretty cool to hear, hear that, because so many people that we've talked to, they're like, they've had such a history with him. And so that's that's pretty exciting. So you graduate, so what did you do immediately after you graduated chiropractic school? Also just, actually, I'm gonna go back a second, because you already had that vitalistic idea of chiropractic before you even started school. How did you find school? Because there's a lot of students like the listeners podcast that kind of including myself, well, including myself when I went to school, is that I already knew chiropractic, as we know it now, before I went to school. And then when you go to school, sometimes it's a little bit shocking. So what was your experience ?
Dr. Rachel Swan 6:11
school that I was a bit of an anomaly. We had very minimal in terms of philosophy, but we had the great John Kelly teaching us. Thankfully. I found it really frustrating. I pretty much just went, got in, got what I had to do, done so I could get out and start practicing. And I came out of school and started working with with Lisa Sheldon so and in her practice, which I was, yeah, again, so fortunate to do
Dr. Don Macdonald 6:38
that's so so you immediately after you graduated, then you it was an associateship. Is that what you did? Yeah, that's right, yeah, let's go. So how long did you do that for?
Dr. Rachel Swan 6:48
I think it was about three years. And then I decided I wanted to travel a bit. So I ended up inadvertently, in Canada. I lived there for a year, and I did a lot of Dr Carter's work while I was over there, just teaching workshops and helping their seminars and things like that. So I know a bunch of Canadian chiropractors too. Thankful. Yeah, that's great.
Dr. Don Macdonald 7:05
And so, so James Carter, did he? So he did kind of, did you go back and forth between teaching, between Australia and Canada? Is that the main or did you go all over
Dr. Rachel Swan 7:14
the place? Yeah, no, mainly between Canada and Australia. Yeah, and Australia.
Dr. Don Macdonald 7:17
Okay, that's cool. And so when did you decide to open your own practice. Probably,
Dr. Rachel Swan 7:22
oh, gosh, maybe a two years after I'd come back from overseas, I'd gone back to practice with Lisa, and then it was just time. So, yeah, I we had an agreement. I could, I moved my my patient base, and, yeah, opened my own doors. That was, gosh, that was a long time ago, maybe 1516, years ago or longer. Oh, gosh, I can't remember.
Dr. Don Macdonald 7:47
And so when you first opened your practice, um, what did you What were some of the things you had to do initially to to get your name out there, because it's kind of when you start, you still had a few patients that you that knew of you before. So that was kind of nice, because you had a base. You didn't start from zero, but, how was those first few years?
Dr. Rachel Swan 8:02
They're actually, they're pretty good, because I had established a pretty, you know, pretty busy practice before I'd left. So most of the people came came with me. So, but, yeah, you're right. It was, it was definitely, it was challenging in some ways. But I, you know, probably did more things like, you know, screenings that, you know, kids stay outs and and things like that. But, yeah, I actually, I love the challenge of, yeah, trying to keep growing my my practice.
Dr. Don Macdonald 8:29
So yeah, and when, when did you ever, when did you first start getting or hearing about these pilgrimages that you've been walking on? What When did, when did that all start the walking chiropractor?
Dr. Rachel Swan 8:43
But I got to 2022, and it had been a really, you know, it'd been a big couple of years for various reasons, and COVID kind of just, you know, topped it off. And I'd said to my mentor that I'd had at the time, I was like, I need to have a break. I'm going to take a month off work. I'm going to go camping and, you know, and do a road trip. And he said, No, you need it. You need an adventure. How about you? He just moved to Portugal the year before, and he said, How about you coming to Portugal? We'll create an event, and then, you know, you can go and do some traveling. I was like, Oh, absolutely, sounds great. I mentioned it to a teacher of mine, and she said, Well, why are you there? Why don't you go and walk the Camino? And I, I was like, oh, never really, you know, I'd heard of it, but I'd never thought about it. And so I went home that afternoon, and I put in Portugal and Camino, and lo and behold, there was a Portuguese Camino, and it had fit. It fitted perfectly into the time frame that I had. And so, yeah. So six weeks later, I was was walking a pilgrimage in Portugal, up to Spain.
Dr. Don Macdonald 9:46
So just for the listeners, how long do you have to walk here in these pilgrimage or, I guess they're all different. But how long was this one?
Dr. Rachel Swan 9:53
Yeah, they're all different. Um, this particular one was about 275 kilometers. I. It.
Dr. Don Macdonald 10:00
Just, just like to look up online and say, Hey, I should try this. And then go in a month, and then walk 200 200 kilometers, so, so, and then after that, you kind of got a little bit hooked on it, like you really enjoyed
Dr. Rachel Swan 10:11
it. Oh, I just loved it. There was something it's a really hard thing to explain to people, but about, I think probably halfway through the first one. I thought, I really, I love this. I'm going to come back and walk. I knew I'd walk the the more traditional one that people have probably heard about, the Frances route. So I did that just over 12 months, 12 months later. So yeah,
Dr. Don Macdonald 10:36
that's good, and that's actually sparked some of the future inspirations for you, right? I see you're planning, you're planning a walk, right? To take people with you, right? And is that that's coming up, so you have a little group, what? Tell us a little bit about that?
Dr. Rachel Swan 10:49
Yeah, absolutely. So in October, I'm going to be taking a small group of people with me, so we'll be walking the Portuguese route. But the idea is to help people prepare, not just for the walking, but for the the experience of pilgrimage, so body, mind and spirit. So most of the it's kind of the opposite of what's offered out there at the moment. So, you know, there's definitely groups who, you know, organize things for you, walk with you and guide you on, you know, on the actual route. Mine's the opposite, really. It's, let's prepare you as and then we go walk together, and then we'll come back, and we'll integrate what we've we've come up with, yeah, but back into life again. That's
Dr. Don Macdonald 11:31
cool and and down the road, you kind of would like to do that, like, regularly, right?
Dr. Rachel Swan 11:36
Yeah, yeah. I'm already, I'm already planning two more next year, because people, yeah, there's been such great interest. And so, yeah, I think that'll be something that will be part of my life forever. I just so.
Dr. Don Macdonald 11:49
So any listeners out there, if you want to go on a pilgrimage, can contact Dr Rachel if she will get you hooked up, if you want to walk around 200 or so. And again, what are the ranges of those? Are they all around the same, or is there quite a difference in the ranges? No,
Dr. Rachel Swan 12:04
they're all very different, you know. So I walked one mid last year, and it was 400 kilometers. I just walked one in Japan in November, and it was, it was only 80, but, oh my gosh, the hardest 80 caves I think I've ever done, but my, my, probably, I wouldn't say my favorite, but the one that really kind of got under my skin was the Francis route, and that was, I walked 900 kilometers in that one. So, yeah,
Dr. Don Macdonald 12:34
wow, that's, that's funny. That's, yeah, yeah. I think you just have to do it like. And how many days do you do it over? Like, I know they probably all different, but
Dr. Rachel Swan 12:43
yeah, it depends. It depends on the person. It depends on your fitness and how much time. Because,
Dr. Don Macdonald 12:46
again, you just walk it, right? So it's not a set timeline. You just do it, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Rachel Swan 12:51
Look, when I like to my the whole idea for me in the beginning was to walk into the unknown. So I didn't have a lot of planning around it. I didn't know I was going to stay I so I knew I had a rough, you know, two weeks to be able to complete it, but I just, I like to walk out a lot of knowns. So yeah, which is a little bit different from, you know, most people's holidays. Well, it's funny because, yeah,
Dr. Don Macdonald 13:15
because you like, just like brand, you've done a lot of Joe Dispenza work. So we always talked about that getting in the unknowns, which, again, if people are addicted to certainty, that's really challenging for them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Rachel Swan 13:25
Oh gosh. I mean, that's where I came from, you know, certainty, control, no, you know, planning. I had my days off, you know, things to do on my days off. So it was a massive, massive shift for me. Yeah,
Dr. Don Macdonald 13:39
that's funny. So I'm always, I'm always super interested, because when we do seminars and we meet someone for the first time, which was when we met in June, and you've had such an extensive history in chiropractic and mentoring and coaching and a successful practice, I'm just kind of always curious, what was it that kind of sparked your interest to actually come out to our event last June? I
Dr. Rachel Swan 14:00
think, about two, three years before I really wanted I was, I was at a bit of a crossroads. Like I said, it had been a tough couple of years, and in terms of my career, like, I love chiropractic, I love what I do. I just find it is such meaningful work. I really feel so, so blessed to have found it. But I was getting to a point where I was like, I don't know if I can keep doing this for much longer. I needed a level of mastery if I was going to continue. And I also needed to, I think it was I mentioned to you at the seminar the I couldn't figure out what was going on with people I, you know, doing the same things that I'd done for, you know, all the time, that had been successful, and then all of a sudden, just not, you know, really, really struggling to help people. And so that was probably the biggest thing for me was, was having those tools to be able to help people through what we've all experienced in the last few years. Yeah, and
Dr. Don Macdonald 14:55
so again, going into the polyvagal theory that that that's kind of like what we've done for the. McDonald's safety corridors. Kind of take that polyvagal lens, not only take it through your your your kind of assessment and adjusting, but just see through your communication and your expectations on chiropractic care. And so what are some of the the things that have been helpful for you, kind of understanding that the polyvagal theory and a little bit of stuff with the safety corridor that you've been able to implement in your practice.
Dr. Rachel Swan 15:23
I think some of it I was doing intuitively, I didn't realize now, having a like a system or a protocol for it, but understanding the why behind it as well, that's just being invaluable. I think the biggest thing, though, has been what it's done for me as a as a person. There Oh, my goodness, it's actually, it's really, it's changed my life. And so I think the big, you know, then the biggest thing is the ripple effect that I have with my patients and and my in my practice, in my community. And, you know, I just, I love going to work at the moment, the things that people are telling me, like, I had a woman in her 50s the other day. She's a she's a teacher. She just beautiful woman. And she said to me, she goes to come in, she said, I don't know what's different, but I feel like I can speak my mind. I just, she said, I'm not putting up with things anymore. And I can just, you know, say it as it is. And I'm like, Who would have thought? So, you know, having having those kinds of conversations now with other people, I think, because I'm feeling that within myself, so that's probably been the biggest part of it. But like I said, having the the hands on to be able to affect those kinds of changes in practice, yeah, I
Dr. Don Macdonald 16:36
find too because, like me, understanding or making sense out of what you're experiencing in your health or your body is probably one of the most important things. And I think that's what we found with a lot of chiropractors, and that's actually what really helped me, too, is just when you understand what's going on in your own body, and it makes more sense to you, right? Because, because, like, like, I said, we were big into the, you know, sympathetics are bad, parasympathetics good, and everybody's just trying to get them all parasympathetic and then also, and you learn, like, oh, there's new advances that actually there's one more level. And we, and it doesn't necessarily mean sympathetics are bad, as long as we're in a state of safety, like, that's actually play, that's like, that's the pilgrimage, that's like walking, that's, that is the blended state of play. And but then in a state of danger, or neurologic, neurological threat, we always have to say neurological threat, because it's below our cognitive awareness, then the sympathetics, or the dorsal vagal aspect is kind of dangerous. And when you're when you're dealing with a practice member, because most of everybody's in threat. So basically 100% are in that bottom quadrant whether they're threat, sympathetic or they're threatened, threat, dorsal, pretty much all of them. But how you'd actually address each one is different, just in your mindset, because we know now that we know from the polyvagal theory. And so I think that's, that's kind of a cool, a cool thing that I've, I've really noticed and, and it's funny, because we actually went from, you know, doing the seminar to you joined the informed chiropractor, then you did the 90 days. And so I'm also kind of curious on, on what was your kind of what was your Since it's been a while, I think we ended it in December, yeah, beginning December, what was your kind of days? Takeaways, because, again, a lot of times the 90 day stuff that, again, that's more about you. But the great, the great thing about chiropractic is, the more evolved you get, it just bleeds all into your practice. And so, yeah,
Dr. Rachel Swan 18:25
absolutely. Well, I inadvertently did the 90 days, I think I reached out to ask, you know, a question about statistics, and then ended up in the 90 day program, which was one of the best things I've ever done, by the way, it was incredible. I think the big things for me with I didn't realize how tapped out I was, and so now I know, you know, for me, the first step is always awareness. I had no awareness. I And I think that was intuitively, part of the reason I started walking pilgrimage, because I was so frozen for such a long time, for so many reasons. I call them the my Pentagon of pain, pleasing, performing, perfecting, procrastinating and peacemaking. Oh, there you go. That's a good one, yeah. And that was, like, that was my life, and I started walking through this and, you know, and got to see some of that. And then the the coaching, the 90 days, just took it to a whole new level. And for me, the big, probably the two big things, were dealing with the outstanding distresses in my life and and dealing with the things left unsaid. So, yeah, it just has. It's just changed my life, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. So I can't thank you guys enough for that. And then that's just led into doing the work with with brandy. Now the body of brandy, Brandy. Oh my gosh. I mentioned to you earlier that, oh my gosh. I think I actually love the gym.
Dr. Don Macdonald 19:54
Yeah, totally. And then she also said, Oh, my pecs are killing me today. So I'm like, well, there you go. You. Are you starting to develop some muscles, muscles, which is, which is really good. Yeah, that's awesome. And so I, like, I always like, um, just, it's funny, because we do have the honor to work with so many chiropractors, so many years of experience. It's like, we usually don't attract, like, you know, the first, like, two years of practice, kind of chiropractors. It's more like 10 or 20 or 30 or something. So just if you were to kind of maybe talk to your younger self, you know, kind of almost as a mentor, and what, what kind of words of wisdom would you give your younger self if you could actually kind of zip back in time and and talk to your younger self?
Dr. Rachel Swan 20:37
Oh, gosh. Really good one. Um, I think it comes back to trusting myself, like really having that interoception, you know, what is actually going on in there? What is my body saying to me? What is my heart saying to me? Like, really being able to listen to myself and to and to trust it,
Dr. Don Macdonald 20:59
and that's, that's a tough one. That's like, it's, it's hard, right?
Dr. Rachel Swan 21:02
That's like a life's work. I think
Dr. Don Macdonald 21:06
that's why it's kind of funny, because a lot of people, they say, Well, I had to go through the things I had to go to, it's almost like, it's like, almost like an addict or something, right? Where you got to hit rock bottom, and then you have to go, like, yeah, it was, it was a
Dr. Rachel Swan 21:19
bit like that. For me, it was like, I am just going to, I'm out of here. I'm tapping out. I'm going to go live on my farm with, you know, some goats in a year. I just, I could, yeah, it was, you know, not rock, rock bottom, but it was pretty it was, was not great. And so I think, yeah, you're right. Those experiences previously led me to that point, and but now being able to, I often talk about zooming out and going, Oh, wow, that's what that was, that's where I was at, or that's what that's that was there for to, you know, to teach me. So I'm sure there'll be plenty more zooming out moments in my life, but thankfully they, you know, they get quicker and quicker to to move through,
Dr. Don Macdonald 21:55
yeah, well, in this way, and it's just like, that's the, that's kind of the, the nice thing about aging, like, I actually, that I enjoy too, is that you just, you're just getting more involved, like, hopefully we're creating wisdom. I always, I tease my practice numbers. I said, our body might be a little bit a little bit more ornery as far as our exercise and not recover as quick. But that's usually why we're, we're, ideally should be developing our wisdom so that we can, so you can learn, learn how to deal with those things, right? So, yeah, so, so we're kind of coming to the end here, but like, we have, you know, chiropractors in the gym or or driving to work, and they might be feeling a little bit lost, or maybe feeling how, like how you were, where they're tapped out, and they want to go and live on a farm and just have some llamas to hang out with or something. What, what kind of words of of inspiration, or would you like to leave them with today? Ah,
Dr. Rachel Swan 22:44
I think it is definitely all there within you. I think a big part of it for me is finding the right people, finding my people and and, yeah, one of my other a friend of mine talks about 20 seconds of courage, and it's something I've been trying to lean into in the last couple of years. It's just those 20 seconds of, you know, it's going to be uncomfortable, but just leaning into, you know, trying something that's different, because, oh my gosh, you never know where it can take you. You know, it could take you 900 kilometers across a country. So, yeah, so, um, 20 seconds of courage and then lean into it. That would be my, my advice. That's
Dr. Don Macdonald 23:26
awesome. Well, that's great. Well, um, we're looking forward to seeing you again in June. Yeah, we're doing our lower spine with our lower safety corridor, pelvis and hips and all that stuff. And then we've just kind of revamped the team event. We've kind of renamed it. It's 20 because I we were calling it the right it the relevancy accelerator, and then people weren't quite sure what it was, so we had to actually make it more relevant. So we actually kind of read, because it's, it is a new event that we're putting on it, so we're just creating it as we go. So it'll be good, you're already you're already registered, but it's going to be good. It's going to be good. So we'll, we'll, we'll look forward to seeing you at in Sydney, in in June, and for everybody else out there. Hope you guys are all doing amazing, lots of great pearls of wisdom in this episode, and we'll see you again in a couple weeks. Take care. And that brings us to the end of another episode of the informed chiropractor. I want to thank you for joining us today and being an important part of this community dedicated to advancing chiropractic care through the insights of neurology and the polyvagal theory. As we close today's episode, remember that each one of us has the power to make a significant impact on the health and well being of our practice members. It's through our continuous learning, application and sharing of knowledge that we can truly elevate the practice of chiropractic and enhance the lives of those that we serve before we part ways. I encourage you to connect with us online, visit our website and follow us on social media. To stay updated. Our website is www, dot theinform chiropractor.com, and if you found value in today's episode, please share it. With a colleague or a friend who might benefit as well. Your support helps us reach and inspire more chiropractors to make a greater impact on their communities. It's been a pleasure to be with you today on the informed chiropractor and until next time Dr Dawn out.
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