Dr. Talissa 0:00
Great. So you know, when you have your intention, when you're at the bottom of the table, when you're at their feet, or when you're checking their body, like you would have intentions, being like, Okay, what is the best adjustment to serve this person at this right time, and what's going to heal them at the greatest and you're like, there's too much. You're there now you get to the end of the table, you're like, safety. Needs. This is what we need. Go straight away. Let's put safety needs back into their nervous system, back into their body. Where are you feeling that tension and as well? When you guys taught us that zigzag pattern, that protective posture that people go into, that was also a game changer as well. So not only was my intention more clear, but when I'm adjusting, it was more certain.
Dr. Don Macdonald 0:46
Yes.
Dr. Talissa 0:47
you're like, yes, the certainty was there because you have that palpation skill that we all have, that we've developed over many, many years with hands on experience. So then when you're putting those hands on the people and you you're going through that pattern, I feel like that was a massive game changer, because you could really feel any like, No, I actually need to clear that now. Like, you trust the adjustment so so much, and then if it's still tension, there's still some form of danger in there, you're like, No, we're not done yet.
Dr. Don Macdonald 1:16
Welcome to the informed chiropractor, where the art and science of chiropractic care meets the cutting edge insights of neuroscience. So whether you're looking to deepen your understanding, redefine your technique, simply inspired to learn how others are making a bigger impact, you're in the right place. Let's embark on this journey of enhancing our practices, our communities and the lives of the people we touch one nervous system at a time. Thank you for joining me on the informed chiropractor. Let's get started.
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of informed chiropractor. This is Dr Don MacDonald with your host. I'm heading back over to Australia, and I'm interviewing an amazing chiropractor. We had the we had the pleasure of privilege of meeting her. Actually, we were just talking before the call, and it was actually we did a little competition to do a video to win the vitality shift, our kind of flagship program. And she won that. So she won the vitality shift when she was a student. And then we got to meet her because she came when we did our program. I think it was called the shift unplugged in Kings cliff, and that was the first time we met her, and I think that was the first time she met her principal chiropractor that she works with right now, which we'll probably talk about in a second. So please everybody Welcome Dr Tali shekelton to the podcast. I was trying to get her name right, because it still looks like and she uses that as her professional name. She's married, so in her like, personal life, she has a different last name, but this is her professional name. So yeah, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast, my dear.
Dr. Talissa 2:51
It's a pleasure being here. Don
Dr. Don Macdonald 2:53
This is awesome. So it's kind of funny, because we've we've seemed like we've met you like, obviously, since you're a student, and then now you've already been in practice for five ish years. But one thing I don't think I ever knew, maybe I did, but how did you get into chiropractic in the first place? So what was it the media decided to be chiropractor?
Dr. Talissa 3:11
It's a pretty long story since drop in, but basically I was a sick child when I was born. So I am alive today because of the medical model. I actually my bladder wasn't properly formed when I was born, so I nearly died. I was on antibiotics for four years. Like, it's pretty wild that I'm still alive.
Dr. Don Macdonald 3:36
You're still alive, yeah.
Dr. Talissa 3:37
Um, yeah. And so growing up, I've always seen chiropractors, but it was never the vitalistic way. It was always like, come back next month, figure in a couple months. So I was pretty lucky that I was being adjusted through that period, but it was never regular. Later in high school, I actually went on a big experience where you stayed at overnight for like 24 hours, so you had to explore the city. And so can you imagine, like, my history, and then that period, like that event, oh my goodness. So that completely threw me. I was in and out of hospitals, I, because I had chronic fatigue syndrome. I had my gallbladder removed, my appendix, my tonsils. I was so sick. I was misdiagnosed with epilepsy for a whole year. It was an insane time. So I honestly never thought like I would be functioning. I would be able to thrive as a human, be like successful at all. So it was a bit of a nightmare that was during age 10 to 12. Now I'm really lucky, because my family is very holistic. So we would change diet. We would change like, I would get a PT. I would. Exercise. I would take vitamins and minerals, but I was only getting better, like, a percentage of the time. It was never like, wow, this was the miracle cure. I guess, if that makes sense, it was just a small piece of that puzzle. And so then I got through year 12. I did it every two years. I started working in a local supermarket, and that's where I met Claire Molina, who actually introduced me to you guys,
Dr. Don Macdonald 4:02
Yes.
Dr. Talissa 4:02
And she was like, come into my clinic. And I was like, okay, look, I'm literally at the end, like I was, I was just like, what's the worst thing that can happen? Like, I need to try something. I'm I'm not driving. And so I went to her clinic. She's like, changed the way I looked at my body and my health. She explained it so beautifully, which was very similar, like to you guys. Since then, I was getting adjusted with Claire twice a week and then weekly, which I still am today, because I practice what I preach. Good job. Literally changed my life. She changed my life. I would not be here without her and her explanations and getting regular checks, and it was just the best thing that's ever happened to me, because I'm actually thriving and functioning.
Dr. Don Macdonald 6:12
Yeah, well, and that's interesting, because So did she just come in the grocery store? Is that how you met her?
Dr. Talissa 6:17
Yes,literally, we talked. I was a checkout chick. I was studying psychology, and we just got it started, getting chatting, and we get along like a house on fire. So you can imagine, I don't even think I worked for like, half an hour. Sorry, we were just joking, and it was, yeah, it was the best.
Dr. Don Macdonald 6:37
And so that's great, because even before you became a chiropractor, she she she was able to kind of give you a good idea of, like, kind of the vitalistic ideas around chiropractic, not just the back pain stuff.
Dr. Talissa 6:47
Absolutely, it was awesome. It was awesome. And I like, I have a life now. Like, that's incredible. I never thought I would be normal. I would always say that growing up, I want to be normal. And now I'm like, Well, I know normal, I don't want that that is likely to actually thriving and happy and able to do those things I want to do and love doing, and not feel like I'm gonna fall in the heat, which is pretty cool.
Dr. Don Macdonald 7:12
Well, and then, just for people out there, we'll take it into your story. But you are like, probably the one, one of the most successful associates we've even seen traveling around the world, because you're you see a very large percentage of people, and especially for being like, like you said you felt like, if you did any exertion, you'd be falling in a heap. So in order to be able to have the energy to see that many people and and serve that many people, is that's amazing on its own right.
Dr. Talissa 7:37
I never thought it would be ever possible to be honest. Like, this is pretty cool. It's pretty special career.
Dr. Don Macdonald 7:45
So tell me a little bit about how the whole thing came to be that you came with Claire to the unplugged in Kings cliff, to our seminar in Kings cliff.
Dr. Talissa 7:54
I'm not sure if she helped, no, not helped me, but with the scholarship video. I'm not sure if that was before or after, but she actually bought my ticket because I was a student. I was like, in a grocery store, and she's like, come with me. I'll bring you. So that was huge thing for a student. Like, it was amazing. So I'm like, forever, great. So that's how I actually came to Kings Cliff, because she was like, you're coming with me. She took me out the hair wig, and the rest is history, really, isn't it?
Dr. Don Macdonald 8:27
That is true. And tell us a little bit about how you met Dr Ben, because Ben, Ben is your principal that you work with, and you met at that seminar. And how did the even conversation come around around you working with them as an associate.
Dr. Talissa 8:43
Oh, there's like, two different versions to this story. I'm swear Ben would say you made me have an associate where he asked me, yeah,
Dr. Don Macdonald 8:52
we'll listen to your version. We'll take your version
Dr. Talissa 8:55
My version is way better, unless you go here. No,
I can't remember how it came about, but I think I still needed to do some hours. That's, I know that's definitely it. I needed to do some hours still with uni. And I was like, Hey, can I come and do some OBS with you to do my finish mode the rest of my hours? But that's only because we got talking at one like, a few of the nights. And actually, I remember crying to his wife, Sarah, so her and I really bonded, which is beautiful. And then I feel like we just all like, kind of like, fell in love. And then they were like, come to Bathurst. And I was like, Okay, what's the worst thing that can happen? I remember getting on a train, like, I'm from Melbourne, so I flew to Sydney, got a train for three hours to Bathurst, and then I was in clinic. We were obsing, we were spending some days together, and then they were like, come to come to Bathurst. Come be my associate next year. And they've never had an associate before, so that was also huge for them. They had the rooms, but they were filled with other things that wasn't fully set up. And. I think they turned it around in a couple months. Put some aircon and heating in there, got some computers, got some tables, and then am I room to this day
we and Steve and Brandi were talking today, because he knew we were talking to you. And I said, Ben, Ben, always a Sabir drink for cooking you guys up, because for him to have his first associate, you and like, come in with such a willingness to learn and and what you've done is he's, he's, he's a lucky guy, and you're a lucky girl to find him too. So it's kind of nice how that plate just worked beautifully together. Yeah,
he definitely earns you a big advice. Sure, I agree with that.
Dr. Don Macdonald 10:34
He always goes to me beer, because it's all good. So, um, but let's tell us a little bit of when you first started practice, kind of, you know, we got people listening to this podcast that might just be starting practice. We know you worked a tail off. So it's not like you just got really busy, because you just sit around and did nothing. We all know a lot of chiropractors think that once they graduate, they're just going to put their, you know, their, their sign up, and then everything's going to be hunky dory, yeah? Oh my God, tell me. Tell me a little bit of, like, how you started to grow at the beginning. She did a really good job.
Dr. Talissa 11:03
It was definitely a journey. I don't play with that the first year. It's rough. Like, the first year was interesting because it was like, I never thought I was good enough, um, let alone good enough to be a successful Cairo. So like, having that, I was like, I'm out now, but it was so fascinating, because when you get in your head, it actually affected the practice as a whole, like through that week, so your numbers, you would notice, and that was like a drop in that week. So then you're like, Okay, we need to get out of this head. We need to put things in in place. But it's also hard, because you have to remember how to adjust. So integrate drop peeps, manual adjustments that you do, AK, SAT, all of that stuff, let alone that. Then X rays, communication, um, reading X rays like two
Dr. Don Macdonald 11:53
people on green, payments, care plans.
Dr. Talissa 12:01
I think that was the biggest learning curve. Was that first year, holy moly. But I was just really lucky because I had the support there quick, like I had the best support team, like in my family and my husband, but also with my clinic. So with Ben and Sarah, they have the system and systems in place. So it was, like, really structured, which I really, really needed. I followed Ben. I did OBS with Ben for weeks. I was recording him. He would spend hours after dinner going through our F talk with me, just so I got that language and I actually was understanding what I would say, like, you know, but post uni, you don't know how to communicate that,
Dr. Don Macdonald 12:45
right?
Dr. Talissa 12:45
You're like, I know how good it is, but I can't actually articulate that, if that makes sense. So that was really that was a massive learning curve, but I was just so lucky with with the systems that we had in place, the functional tests I was able to clinically give the objective finding pre and post. So that was really easy, and had those that in place was just a massive game changer.
Dr. Don Macdonald 13:11
Well, that's good because you had the because you got the vitality shift when you're in school, and then once you got there. Now the good thing is, Ben was using all the objectives findings, so then it just kind of feathers through, like, it's nice when you have like, consistent, like, ideas on how we're going to measure improvement in function through, like, improving subluxation, like, it's, it's pretty cool. And that's the same,
Dr. Talissa 13:32
it's huge, because you can actually show a person, this is what's changed. Holy moly. Like, how cool is that? So that was awesome to be able to have the vitality shift and all those objective findings we had pre and post tests. But then also the language I would always listen to you guys as well on repeat reading. So then that language you constantly like, had that repetition in my brain to be out, actually articulate, like I would say, but it did get easier second and third year, oh my gosh, so much easier.
Dr. Don Macdonald 14:06
You start talking nature. And I talked to that a lot about chiropractors, is that it like how you talked earlier about, like, if you're having an off week, how you how that reflects in your volume so fast, so that that's one of the things I find that's interesting about chiropractor is you get such kind of immediate feedback within a week or two, if you're off track in your mind, because your volume just goes down, like you should go, yeah, right, okay. But I find it's pretty cool accountability, because, like, Brandi always says, like, you can't give away what you don't have. So it's like, super important to be able to look after ourselves. So that being said, what kind of things did you do to kind of keep yourself on track, to keep your self care going? Because, again, it takes a tremendous amount of energy to grow a practice at the very beginning,
Dr. Talissa 14:15
Huge! like walking around giving flyers we were doing talks at the supermarket, like free spine or health checks, like, some retirement homes. Like, yeah, it was fun. And probably not gonna lie, I did burn out a lot in the first couple years. It really wasn't until I did the 90 days mentorship with Brandi that she was like, Do you have fun? Like, are you happy? I'm like, I work.
What do you do with that? I'm like, What do you mean?
Dr. Don Macdonald 15:24
I'm working that is that disorder. That's what I do.
Dr. Talissa 15:26
I love chiropractic. What do you mean by that? So it really helped having a new, a new as well on my team to be like, Okay, we need to, we need to turn this around. So then, like you guys was like, You guys told me that I needed that balance. So then I started thinking about what I love doing. So then I started putting that into play as well. So I was getting dancing now, which I still do every week. Nice, you bought a puppy. So there was little things that we were like, we needed to to integrate. So I was good for them, so then I was able to serve more people.
Dr. Don Macdonald 16:06
Well, it's interesting, because when you do something like start a new practice, sometimes there's like, that's why they say sometimes balance is a little bit of an illusion, because temporarily you actually need to go off balance in order to get the practice going. But then if you don't rebalance, like, that's how people just track. They'll crash and burn, like, it's unsustainable over a long period of time. So that is a really good lesson to know that, yes, we will go out balance probably, and we will start to feel a little bit burnt out, but as long as you course correct before, like, the full brunt of it hits your health. And you probably had to be a little bit careful too, because your health had been so fragile in the past. You didn't want to go in there and just burn it back out again, just since, just since you got it back.
Dr. Talissa 16:47
Absolutely noT. I was saying, hell no, I've not gone back to that stage. But it was very handy, having also been being able to be adjusted all the time as well. I'm like, Okay, I'm out. Please come help me. Yeah,
Dr. Don Macdonald 17:00
it's like I'm dysregulated. I need to, I need the reregulation and stuff like that. So
Dr. Talissa 17:04
I'm offline, and I don't know how smile. Help me.
Dr. Don Macdonald 17:08
Yeah, I know my face doesn't work. My social engagement system is is on the fritz, stuff, right?
Dr. Talissa 17:12
So depending on resting space, I don't want that. Need help. Well,
Dr. Don Macdonald 17:18
that being said, that goes to first, a great transition is to the polyvagal theory. So, like, especially during COVID, we really, we really, like, Oh, I got really focused into the polyvagal theory, because we saw a lot of people through the trauma of COVID, like, just change the way that they were. They were coming in and presenting in practice, like, the same people we were seeing before were not the same people after. And so we started, well, not only created the MacDonald's safety corridor, but just started doing a lot of work with our group, core group, about implementing principles from the polyvagal theory to practice. And so what are some of the the learnings from the polyvagal theory that you really took the and implemented?
Dr. Talissa 17:56
Um, number one, it, it was less complicated in my mind,
Dr. Don Macdonald 18:01
right?
Dr. Talissa 18:01
So you know, when you have your intention, when you're at the bottom of the table, when you're at their feet, or when you're checking their body, like you'd have intentions, being like, Okay, what is the best adjustment to serve this person at this right time, and what's going to heal them at the greatest and you're like, there's too much there. Now you get to the end of the table, you're like safety needs. This is what we need. Go straight away. Let's put safety needs back into their nervous system, back into their body. Where are you feeling that tension and as well? When you guys taught us that zigzag pattern, that protective posture that people go into, that was also a game changer as well. So not only was my intention more clear, but when I'm adjusting, it was more certain. Yes, you're like, yes, the certainty was there because you have that palpation skill that we all have, that we've developed over many, many years with hands on experience. So then when you're putting those hands on the people and you, you're going through that pattern, I feel like that was a massive game changer, because you could really feel and you're like, No, I actually need to clear that now, like you trust the adjustment so so much. And then if it's still tenseness, still some form of danger in there, you're like, No, we're not done yet.
Dr. Don Macdonald 18:38
That's fine. So that great way to explain
Dr. Talissa 19:19
that was really cool.
Dr. Don Macdonald 19:22
Sometimes I'm I'm like, because sometimes I just do stuff, because I it just I feel like it, but then you try to like, cognitively, try to describe it, but that was a great way to describe it. So thank you.
Dr. Talissa 19:31
Like go on and on about mentoring shifts with you guys. But back to like, when I did the 90 days I remember brandy watched my video and was like, Why are you running back and forth? And I was exhausted, because you go check the feet, then you go up, and then you go check the feet, and it was so tiring. So then being like, Okay, I need to stop that. And actually, we have the intuition with Labrador. We We know where it is without knowing. We just know, like you can't explain it, you just know what I'm trying to say. And they're then having the polyvagal theory and adjusting through that lens as well, which just gave me that more clarity,
Dr. Don Macdonald 20:17
yeah, and we realized that's exhausting. Yeah, you didn't have to your 10,000 steps in on each patient, each practice.
Dr. Talissa 20:25
I was very big, exhausted.
Dr. Don Macdonald 20:31
I know it is hiring it when you're just doing that, but yeah, I think, and part of it is, is through experience as well as, like, even for me, like I now that I've, you know, being in practice for like, 27 years, you start to see patterns. See patterns. So it's funny, because even even during conversation with somebody, what they say, because subconsciously, what you say is almost like the nervous system talking to you, like they don't even cognitively know and then that's like, I'm gonna check this, and if I check this, there's a pattern with this. And I usually see this and this and this, and then you go, do that on they go, how do you know that? And I'm like, Well, I said, you know, a protected shoulder, everything goes together. Protected hip, everything goes together. You know, a protected ox split. All these things usually go together. And so you can start to see those patterns. But it, but like I said, it does take some time and experience to be able to get quicker at chunking down information so that you like, you just need one or two little pieces of evidence, one little check, and then you already know, boom, this is what I'm doing, done.
Dr. Talissa 21:21
But also that makes the conversation so much easier as well post, because then your person's like, why? And you're like, what? I don't have to go on this whole feel about it. I can just say it's your protective hit. Your body is brilliant. She is so brilliant. She's always wanting to self heal, self regulate. So then she's going into your protective pattern for a reason, and this is that compensatory pattern, and I feel like that just makes the language as well, and the communication so much easier. And people actually get that,
Dr. Don Macdonald 21:52
yeah, and especially if you say, especially as you say, like, if someone's always been experiencing that danger that they're almost there, wired into the pattern of protection, and that's why you're protecting, even though whatever their danger was is not there. And so we're trying to just almost like, I said, it's like our physiology is talking their physiology, and we're saying you're safe, like in a neurological level, because it's okay. It is okay right now, but sometimes it doesn't realize it's okay because it's so used to being protected.
Dr. Talissa 22:20
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Dr. Don Macdonald 22:22
So you came and hung out with us in Sydney last year and and so I'm just curious, because you did, we did the upper the upper spine MacDonald's safety corridor, and then we just did the polyvagal team, as far as, like, communicating, you know, the polyvagal theory, with explaining chiropractic care to using some of this language. And I know you've already described some of the things that you've you've that you've implemented, but what were kind of some of the highlights you had from that weekend?
Dr. Talissa 22:48
I think the adjustments, learning, the adjustments are a bit of a game changer, because there's not many seminars that do the adjustments, like you have the synchro and all of those things, but you can't leave that seminar and just do them. Whereas the adjustments that you taught me, I was able to implement it straight away the next day in clinic, because I was like, if I couldn't do it, I would do it with the drop piece. I would do it with an integrator, like an activator, or an arthrosim like and then that got those changes, and the changes were getting changing. Like it was amazing. You could see it straight away, or you could see it the next week. I feel like that was a big thing, also, because of our personality and who we are. We take a lot of people when they have resting bitch face, and we take it to heart. So now when I see that, I'm not offended. It's great, like, I'm like, they're shut down. But also then knowing that I changed my adjustment. So if they're in dorsal vagal, I'm like, Well, I have to go hammer and Tom on them. If they're in fight flight, I'm like, I can wheel it back. We can gently go into that system. We can calm that down. We can go in some slowly, yeah, so I don't blow them out. And that was also a really big thing as well. It it was just another piece of the puzzle that was missing, and now it's just like, I just feel like I'm getting more out of the adjustment, which is really, really cool. That's more results.
Dr. Don Macdonald 24:21
More results. That's great, and more certain benefit my heart as well. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's less stressful too, right? Because, you know, you're not trying to, like, well, not that we're trying to fix people before, but we realize that the the state of ease, like I always say, you know, we can be regulated or we can be dysregulated, and how healthy you are over your life is how much time you spend in regulation. And us, as a chiropractors, with the chiropractic adjustment, we're just contributing to a more more time in a regulated state. So, and it's a process, like life is a process over time. It's not just an event. And so just realizing I'm contributing to the time they spend in a regulated. Date, which will always help to improve their health, and then it's like, it's less stressful because we're like, we're not like, having to have the perfect adjustment that does the perfect nerve, odd pressure off the nerve, which, like, heals a certain condition, and then we don't have to feel so stressed or, or, like, fix their back pain in one shot, or, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So, so it's a little bit helpful, much nice that. Yeah, so a lot of you know, a lot of chiropractors out there have been a practice five years or so. What kind of words of wisdom, or what kind of advice would you might have wanted to be able to give back to your older self? So imagine you could kind of fly through time and talk to yourself when you first when you first graduated is there, is there certain words of wisdom you'd give your younger self,
Dr. Talissa 25:44
probably, like, don't give up. Like, this time will pass now that I've gone through that and like this is my sole purpose in this life. Like this is why I was put on this earth. Is to adjust and to help all those people that way, maybe the medical model model failed them. So I feel like a lot of that is just, you can do it. It's more like a you got this type of thing. Yeah, that's probably my wisdom. Like constantly, just keep telling yourself that you can
Dr. Don Macdonald 26:23
I laugh because, like, for people out there, we talk about the different animals is just personality styles, and so we're, we're both Labradors and and I think for a Labrador to find out, the only time you grow is when you're in discomfort, it's kind of like, it's kind of a disappointing Law to discover, like, I would prefer to grow and like, love and bliss, where everything's good but it's still growing. But unfortunately, that's not what happens sometimes. So at least now, when I know like I'm feeling uncomfortable, I'm like, Oh, I must be growing, even though I don't really enjoy it. But.....
Dr. Talissa 26:57
yeah, yeah, that was like, I'm leveling up. It's like, the hardest week in practice. And you're like, Ben whispers in my ear, you are leveling up. And you're like, I am sorry
Dr. Don Macdonald 27:07
Okay, are we? Are we having fun yet? Yeah.
Dr. Talissa 27:14
And then the week after that, you're like, oh, leveled up. You're right. That was easy. There's no one, yeah,
Dr. Don Macdonald 27:20
exactly. So, are there any things that, things that you do, like, as far as self care or mindset stuff, get you ready for the week or, like, to get you kind of, you know, we got people listening to they might be driving to work. Like, what kind of things do you do to kind of keep elevated for your people? Well,
Speaker 1 27:37
Actually, another game changer that Brandi told me, which I still like fits in my brain to this day. She's like, you perform like a like a top athlete. And I was like, What do you mean by that? You're like, you need to train like physically, like a tough athlete. So now I go to the gym. I lift weights. It's a game changer. Going to the gym a couple of times a week. If you can get there, like you can get there three to four times, oh my goodness, it makes the world difference. Because then when I'm adjusting my truckies and my farmers and my construction workers and my builders, it's so much easier. And they're like, oh my god, you're so strong. And you're like, Damn straight, I am. But that was huge. Now, since like, put, like, implementing that in place, like, just do it, it, it makes the world of difference. Yes, you're exhausted for the first couple weeks, but then after that, everything becomes easier, and you're you're just better for it, and then your people are better for it. So that was i really, not the gym
Dr. Don Macdonald 28:42
that is. And again, I think it just gives me appreciation for all the chiropractors out there, because, like in chiropractic, you have to have such a blend of skills, like it is, it's amazing. You have to be smart. You have to, like, know what you're doing. You have to know your anatomy, know your physiology. You have to be like, like, coordinatedly skilled, like, you have to be able to physically have skill, to be able to give an adjustment. You have to be strong and flexible, right? Or you get injured, you have to, like, make sure you look after your diet, because if you're eating crap, your energy is not going to be good and you're not going to be able to succeed. You have to, like, look after your sleep, so that you recover properly, so that you are, like, at the top of your game, a lot. It seems like a lot, I know, but that's, I think that's what, that's what differentiates, though, I think the long term, successful people in practice from other ones that either get injured or else they get burnt out to not be able to, to to continue. So definitely gotta put in the hard work that is, that's great. Well, I just want to, again, we're coming to end of the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. Like, yeah, it's, it's pretty amazing. We always get more like, kind of like, like, typically we get principal chiropractors on. And I would just really thought it was really important, because, you know, we have principals, so we have a. Associates, like you said, if you, if you, if you, if you need some structure, I think it would be very challenging sometimes for someone to open right from scratch. If you, you know you're out of school and you don't have you know, you don't have your adjusting kind of under control. You don't have your communication under control. You don't have your care planning under control. And then you don't have staffing and like, Bill business, stuff, like there, there's a lot of stuff. So I think it's, it's a really good option. And so I it's really nice to hear too. You guys have had a good relationship over this time, and it's been, it's been beneficial for both of you. So thank you. We're, we're very proud of you from having that young, that young student that came to Kings cliff, where you and Claire Remember, we're writing those King Cliff things on the on the beach, remember, yeah, yeah, with the big bucks and stuff like that, yeah. And I remember we just talked. I was just talking with brandy. I was just we were talking about early mornings and how beautiful early mornings were. And I just remember every morning because we got up, because we're jet lagged. We get up at like five in the morning, but we'd always go to that little coffee shop that was on the strip there, and then go right out to the beach, and we'd always just walk the beach and watch the sun come up. So that was pretty. So beautiful. That was a beautiful time. So, so thank you very much for being on the podcast.
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